Hi, this is the 9th IRC Japanese lesson at #JapaneseLessons over irc.rizon.org 
This has been done thanks to #LearnJapanese. Please visit us there or come to the 
forum http://invision.nihongosensei.org/index.php 

This lesson has been given by tashi on 2006 January the 31st 9pm EST.
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( note: to see kanji and hiragana, you need to have MS Gothic font )

Ohayou, good morning, today's lesson will cover counting.
You may think counting is small and minor and wonder what an hour of counting will involve.
Counting in Japanese is pretty elaborate though.

---------------------------------------------------- [ Counters in Counting ] ---------------------------------------------------- 

In English, if we can count to ten, we can say "one flower" or "two hamburgers" etc.
In Japanese however, you should never say ni hanbaga- as it is totally incorrect.
The Japanese language has specific counters for pretty much everything.
http://www.trussel.com/jcount.htm I found this site with over 500 of them or something...
I'll mention that site later.

For now, I'll show you numbers one through ten using romaji, kanji, and then hiragana.

English		Romaji		  Kanji		Hiragana 

   01    	  	   ichi		     一              	     いち 
   02    	  	   ni		     二    	     に 
   03    	  	   san		     三    	     さん  
   04     	  	   shi		     四    	     し 
   05    	  	   go		     五    	     ご 
   06    	  	   roku		     六    	     ろく  
   07    	  	   shichi		     七    	     しち  
   08    	  	   hachi		     八    	     はち 
   09    	  	   kyuu		     九    	     きゅう 
   10    	  	   juu		     十    	     じゅう 

If you want to say second grade, then you can say,
	二年  / ni nen  

However if you wanted to say 2 hamburgers, it would have to be 
	二つのハンバーガー  / futatsu no hanba-ga-             

If you're familiar with 2chan, it calls itself futaba channeru.	 futa = 2 

------------------------------------------------------- [ General Counters ] ------------------------------------------------------ 
―――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――
|   First I'll give you general counters, which you should be able to use when you don't know the  | 
|   appropriate counter. but it is best to learn the appropriate counter!                       	           |
―――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――

English		Romaji		  Kanji		Hiragana 

    01 		 hitotsu 	    一つ 		  ひとつ
    02 		 futatsu 	    二つ		  ふたつ
    03 		 mittsu 		    三つ		  みっつ
    04 		 yottsu 		    四つ		  よっつ
    05 		 itsutsu 	    五つ		  いつつ
    06 		 muttsu 	    六つ		  むっつ
    07 		 nanatsu 	    七つ		  ななつ
    08 		 yattsu 		    八つ		  やっつ
    09 		 kokonotsu 	    九つ		  ここのつ
    10 		 tou 		     十		 とう

-------------------------------------------------------- [ People Counters ] ------------------------------------------------------ 

Now, counters for people:

  English		Romaji		  Kanji		Hiragana 

01 person		  hitori 		    一人 		  ひとり
02 people 		  futari 		    二人		 ふたり
03 people 		  san nin 	    三人		 さんにん
04 people 		  yon nin 	    四人		 よんにん
05 people 		  go nin 	    五人		 ごにん
06 people 		  roku nin 	    六人		 ろくにん
07 people 		  shichi nin 	    七人		 しちにん
08 people 		  hachi nin 	    八人		 はちにん
09 people 		  kyuu nin 	    九人		 きゅうにん
10 people 		  juu nin 	    十人		 じゅうにん

When counting by people it starts off with hito, futa, then it switches over to san, yon, go, roku etc.
Here are some popular examples of where counters are used that you might recognize:

  The old akira kurosawa movie	- 七人の侍  - shichi nin no samurai  - the seven samurai 
  Bleach opening song 	-  一輪の花 - ichirin no hana 	    - one flower

Hmm okay, let's do some example sentences.

	部屋(へや)に電話(でんわ)が一つ(ひとつ)あります。  
	heya ni denwa ga hitotsu arimasu
	In my room there is one phone

	ロッカーに本(ほん)が二冊(にさつ)あります。    
	rokka ni hon ga nisatsu arimasu
	In my locker there are two books

You may be familiar with that trivia question in #learnjapanese. I think it is about 

	ビール二本(にほん)お願いします(おねがいします)     
	biiru nihon onegai shimasu
	Japan beer please (polite command)

http://www.trussel.com/jcount.htm
What the ichi / hito field means is whether the counter uses 
ichi, ni, san, shi etc or hitotsu, futatsu, mittsu, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------- [ Months Counters ] ------------------------------------------------------- 

We might know how to say months. If you can say months, then you should know if they're ichi 
counters or hito counters:

  English		Romaji		  Kanji		Hiragana 

  January 		ichigatsu 	   一月		いちがつ
  February 		nigatsu 	   二月		にがつ
  March 		sangatsu 	   三月		さんがつ
  April 			shigatsu 	   四月		しがつ  
  May 			gogatsu 	   五月		ごがつ
  June 			rokugatsu 	   六月		ろくがつ
  July 			shichigatsu 	   七月		しちがつ
  August 		hachigatsu 	   八月		はちがつ
  September  		kyuugatsu 	   九月		きゅうがつ
  October  		juugatsu 	   十月		じゅうがつ
  November  		juuichigatsu 	 十一月		じゅういちがつ
  December  		juunigatsu 	 十二月		じゅうにがつ

So as we see, months use the counter 月( がつ) and count with normal numbers and the counter 
is gatsu for months and as Neko-Musume pointed out, 

	四月 should be read しがつ(shigatsu), よんがつ(yongatsu) is inappropriate.

If you know the word 一番 ( いちばん) then you know another counter (ichiban).
ban is counter for order/place, e.g. first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and so on. So:

	first 	ichiban 	一番	いちばん
	second 	niban 	二番	にばん
	third 	sanban 	三番	さんばん
	fourth 	yonban 	四番	よんばん
	fifth 	goban 	五番	ごばん

I think you can take it from there.

-------------------------------------------------------- [ Counting past 10 ] ------------------------------------------------------- 

Okay.  Hopefully you can count to December, 10th place, 10 people, 10 general objects 
(the hamburger ones.. hitotsu futatsu etc). Now let's count past 10

	10	十	じゅう		juu
	11 	十一	じゅういち 	juuichi
	12	十二	じゅうに 		juuni
	13	十三	じゅうさん 	juusan
	14	十四	じゅうよん 	juuyon

and it just continues like that.

	19 	十九	きゅうじゅう 	kyuujuu
	20 	二十	にじゅう 		nijuu
	21 	二十一	にじゅういち 	nijuuichi
	23 	二十三	にじゅうさん 	nijuusan
	29 	二十九	にじゅうきゅう 	nijuukyuu
	30 	三十	さんじゅう 	sanjuu

----------------------------------------- [ Counting Small Animals and Ages  ] ----------------------------------------- 

Another trick counters will pull on you is the counter for small animals is 匹(ひき) hiki

        01 small animal          一匹          いっぴき   	ippiki
        02 small animals        二匹          にひき         	nihiki
        03 small animals        三匹          さんびき		sanbiki
        04 small animals        四匹          よんひき 		yonhiki
        05 small animals        五匹          ごひき 		gohiki
        06 small animals        六匹          ろっぴき 		roppiki
        07 small animals        七匹          ななひき		nanahiki
        08 small animals        八匹          はっぴき		happiki
        09 small animals        九匹          きゅうぴき 	kyuuhiki
        10 small animals        十匹          じゅうぴき 	juupiki

The point of that was to notice that sometimes a dakuten or maru is added to the counter.
The counter for cupfuls is hai, but 1 cupful is いっぱい (ippai), 3 is さんばい(sanbai) and such.
You'll need to look at charts and memorize when the counters change for certain numbers.

	家(うち)に犬(いぬ)が三匹(さんびき)います。  
	uchi ni inu ga sanbiki ga imasu
	In my house there are three dogs

	家(うち)に猫(ねこ)が一匹(いっぴき)います。        
	uchi ni neko ga ippiki imasu
	In my house there is one cat

	六匹(ろっぴき)の猫(ねこ)がいます。      
	roppiki no neko ga imasu
	There are six cats

	一つ(ひとつ)の手袋(てぶくろ)を買います。   
	hitotsu no tebukuro wo kaimasu
	I will buy a glove

the counter for years old is 歳(さい), often written as 才(さい) (both readings = sai)

	私(わたし)は十六(じゅうろく)歳(さい)です。        
	watashi ha juuroku sai desu.
	I am 16 years old.

	____さんは何歳(なんさい)ですか？            
	How old is _____?

	#JapaneseLessons でせいとは何人(なんにん)ですか？
	#JapanseLessons de seito ha nan nin desu ka
	#JapaneseLessons has how many students?

Oh!  A quick fun cultural note. The counter for pieces of food is kiri.  One piece = hitokiri
If you've seen Kenshin, that might ring a bell. "manslayer~~~" as it is romantically put.
Right.  So it's bad luck or something to be offered one piece of food and three pieces of food.  
Three pieces = mikiri

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I hope everyone enjoyed today's lesson.  I hope some of you have benefited from the use of 
kanji and hiragana. Hopefully you'll have a chance to look at it more closely in the log.

______________
 ||  Homework  ||
--------------------------

1. Watch part 7 of the video ( Japanese Basic 1 - 07 - May I Look at This )

2. Read lesson 7 in the textbook.

3. Go here and learn to read and write 5 more Katakana.
    http://www.japanese-name-translation.com/site/write_katakana.html
	ta, chi, tsu , te , to
	
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STUDENT LISTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

candrodor		Curbebob 		MaXim		Renato_kun 
divStar		Dravonic 		MaxwellsDemon 	S4RG3
Ryo-ohki		dude^2		Mazhule 		ShadowofShinobi 
Vincent-MX	flippy		milki 		Slanski2 
raiZar		        Grangee 		    Naga_		SnakeBite|
AcridSainty 	Greenery 		nariza 		Soriin
Akkio 		IceTiger		Neko-Musume 	tearfate 
amylove 		inuyasharenegade 	PaNDeR 		Tetsu 
bd_		        ipridian 		    peroxide		TheMarine 
BpPhantom 	        Kazekage 		    Progeny		toyo^_^
BraiN 		Korokun		prosthetic 		Xistance 
Conspera 		L_FRoST 		R0N1N		XoloKs
Copycatken	lalwlzorrw 		ramandu 		
Corncobb 		Lanthis 		rane 		

Thanks for coming! Do your homework!! 
And try hard everyone. !!    ~~tashi

Editors –  Candrodor, Vincent-MX, tashi
This is Version 2.0

Vincent-MX Bonus: Behind the scene:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Copycatken		: 7 = shichi or nana right?
tashi			: yes, shichi
Copycatken		: when to use which then?
Neko-Musume		: depends on the object

Copycatken	    : could I get an example of when to use shichi and nana?
tashi		    : 七百(ななひゃく = nanahyaku 700
		      七人の侍         = shichinin no samurai = 7 samurai
	                      i don't know of any useful examples

Dravonic		    : is it ok to say just nana? the full word is nanatsu right?
tashi		    : no, nana is a word. it means seven. nanatsu is "seven general objects"
Neko-Musume	    : if it was 7 things and no counter, it'd be nanatsu
Copycatken	    : gah, so many counters

Dravonic		    : which is the count for inanimate objects? dunno if there is one 
		      (maybe you said but i lost it) 
		      uhmm things like pen, table, chair, stuff like that
tashi		    : pens are long cylindrical objects -> counter 本(ほん) (hon)
		      ki is counter for tables.. kyaku also = table counter
Copycatken	    : mai for flat rectangular stuff?
Neko-Musume	    : for sheets of stuff
tashi		    : yes, flat things = mai.   枚 (mai) thin, flat objects, sheets, pages, mats, 
		      panes, order of sumo ranking, clothing, mochi.
		      ooh, kyaku is all furniture, well.. legged furniture at least

Dravonic		    : omg so there are counters for everything?
Neko-Musume	    : pretty much Dravonic
		      bottles of beer, pens, and cigarettes all have the same counter. wheeee

Copycatken	    : so essentially, you gotta memorize when to use which form of a 
		      number (4,7,9 ) right?
Neko-Musume	    : It is especially tricky as tashi demonstrated earlier
tashi		    : yeah, about that...
                                      死(し) means death  and   四(し) means four
		      I usually guess yon over shi because of that.
Neko-Musume	    : it's weird how for some stuff, people will use the kun for 4 while they're 
		      using the on for everything else and it seems to be on a per-case basis.

=======================================================================
This 9th lesson by tashi was re-edited by      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~     Vincent-MX  V2.0  
=======================================================================
Thanks to " Candrodor "  for a good clean log.

This Document is BEST viewed in Wordpad instead of Microsoft Word ^_^;
       because wordpad doesn't have red spell check underlining.