Hi, this is the 2nd IRC Japanese lesson at #JapaneseLessons over irc.rizon.org. 
This has been done thanks to #LearnJapanese. Please visit us there or come to the 
new forum http://invision.nihongosensei.org/index.php 

This lesson has been given by kekekekeke on 2005 December the 13th 9pm EST.

Well, first I'd like to start off by saying thank you for coming back, it reallly means a lot to me.

I hope this at least works for 1 person. Then it will be worth it.
So I'll continue to do this until everyone leaves the room on me. :P  
Well, you know there was homework. So, if you did it, kudos (congratulations). If not, go eat $hi#

----------------------------------------------------- [ Japanese Particles ]  -----------------------------------------------------

Alright, last time I left off talking about the possessive particle "no" .

	Divstar no hon = Divstar's book
	hon = book

It's just like "apostrophe s ('s)" in English.   Another example:

	Att-san no enpitsu = Att's pencil     
	enpitsu = pencil                                                 

Well, to make this sentence more grammaticaly correct, you would add "desu" to the end of it.

	Att-san no enpitsu desu.     (That's the true sentence)

In colloquial (spoken) Japanese they tend to drop the "desu" from time to time, or convert it to "da"
"desu" or "da" is the first verb I'll talk about.  It actually didn't start as a verb.  Its history is a little 
complicated and because it didn't start as a verb, it has a funny conjugation system. Basically 

	desu = "be"

It's complicated, because its meaning varies with each sentence. It can mean anything from:

	desu = "you/we/they are" to "it/she/he is"

Example:
	kekekekeke no keeki desu
	It is kekekekeke's cake  

That would be an ok translation if someone else said that... 
Why would they say that?  Well, they would if the question before was 

	"Dare no keeki desu ka?" = "Whose cake is it?"
	  Dare = who
	  ka = question marker

"ka" is a question marker when it's at the end of the sentence.
You just put it after "desu" and it makes the previous statement into a question.
It's a particle with other meanings too, but for now it marks the question.

	student1: Dare no enpitsu desu ka? 
		   Whose pencil is it?

	student2: Att-san no enpitsu desu.
		   It's Att's pencil.

	student1: Hontou desu ka?
		   Is it true?
	  	   hontou = true

	student2: Hai, hontou desu.
		   Yes, it's true.

-------------------------------  [ Kore / Sore / Are/ Dore   and   the particle "wa" ]  ------------------------------- 

Now, if you watched the video or checked out lesson 1 in the textbook, I think you'd be familiar 
with this stuff, a little bit at least. :)    It also talked about "kore" "sore" "are" too. 

Do you see the pattern here?   kore, sore, are, dore   ---->   ko-so-a-do, it's sometimes called.

	kore = this 
	sore = that
	are   = that     (away from speaker AND the person you're speaking to)
	dore = which

Now, before I dive into that, I'm going to introduce a new particle, the particle "wa."
It's confusing. Even the advanced Japanese language students mess it up.

Here's a Grammar point first:

	Kore wa enpitsu desu
	This is a pencil

   X     wa     Y    desu
This grammar is used to identify things. For example:

	Sore wa kuruma desu.
	That is a car.

Okay.... with that being said. I'll talk about "wa."   "wa" is the TOPIC marker of a sentence.
In English, we don't use topics that much. So the literal translation of "wa" is awkward.

	wa = "as for X" or "speaking of X"

For example, these should really be translated as:

	Kore wa enpitsu desu.
	As for this, its a pencil.

	Sore wa kuruma desu.
	As for that, its a car.

It's kind of strange to say that in English, as it is in Japanese too!
Once the topic is known, you don't repeat it anymore.
Here's an example to hammer in that point:

Question:
	kowai ' '	: kore wa dare no kuruma desu ka?
		   as for this, whose car is it?

Answer:	
	Before: 
	vincent	: kore wa watashi no desu.
		  as for this, its mine.
		  (note: this is a proper answer, but it's better to say the "After" version )
	After:
	vincent	: watashi no desu.
		  its mine.
	              (note: you drop the  kore wa because the topic is already known)

Did you notice something else in that sentence too? The object "kuruma/car" was also dropped. 
In english when someone asks you whose car is it, do you always answer "its my car", or "its ken's 
car".  No, you can just say "its ken's". Japanese operates the same way.

Here are some more examples of Wa with their literal and inferred translations:

	sore wa nan desu ka?
	as for that, what is it?
	What is that?
	nan/nani = what

	sore wa anata no pen desu.
	as for that, its your pen. 
	thats your pen.
	anata = you
	anata no = your
	pen = don't be stupid :P

	are wa nan desu ka?
	As for that thing way over there, what is it?
	What is that thing over there?
	are = that (thing away from speaker AND the person you're speaking to)

	ah, are wa fuji-san desu.
 	oh, As for that thing over there, its Mt. Fuji.
	oh, that thing over there is Mt. Fuji.

CULTURE NOTE: Fuji-san is how the japanese say Mt. Fuji, they do not mark all mountains 
with the -san suffix, so dont be confused and think they put the suffix -san after every mountain. The
suffix -san is used to mark people.  So Fuji-san very well could be a person called Mr. Fuji but the 
more likely scenario would be someone talking about the infamous mountain. If it wasnt clear before, 
the -san suffix is used to mean Mr./Ms./Mrs. and sometimes just to show respect when in certain 
social situations it is proper to do so..
	
IMPORTANT GRAMMAR NOTE: Just keep in mind that the inferred translations are really just 
that. They are versions of what it kind of seems like in natural english after you remove the 
awkwardness. But remember, if you overuse Wa in your questions and answers your japanese 
will sound foreign and textbook just like it would to the english ear if we heard "as for" repeatedly.  
Use the inferred translations to guide you into the sentence's general meaning for your own 
translation-sake but always keep in mind what Wa really means. We will discuss more about
Wa in next weeks class.
	
Sounding Natural:
	
	student1: Dore desu ka?
 		   Which is it?

	student2: Sore desu.
		   It's that.

	student1: Sore?
		   Is it that?

	student2: iie, gomen, are desu.
		   No, sorry, its that over there.
		   iie = no
		   gomen = sorry
	
In Japanese you also don't have to use "ka" every time.
You can raise the tone of the last word to make it sound like you are asking a question.
One can just say "sore?" and point at something with a rising intonation. When creating 
questions informally or colloquially you do not use ka. Examples of this will come.

-----------------------------------------------------------  [ Politeness ]  -----------------------------------------------------------

Let's talk more about "desu".  Before, I said it could also be "da" - the difference is politeness.
"Desu" is more formal than "da" -  da is more casual.

	Sore desu ka?
	Is it that?

	iie, kore da
	No, it's this.

Japanese has many levels of politeness as most languages do, but Japanese politeness is very 
structured. So it's important to know of it when you start learning Japanese. The way most books 
teach you is by teaching you the polite form first instead of the casual. I'm not going to do this.  
I will teach them both together. I hated learning Japanese for months and seeing something as 
simple as "da" at the end of a sentence and being like "Holy cow man, what the hell is 'da' ?" 
because my teacher only taught me "desu" ><

So I said before, "desu" operates like a verb. It's used AFTER nouns and adjectives, as we've seen.

I haven't introduced adjectives yet, but I will probably next week. So, verbs in Japanese vary by 
attaching different suffixes to them. "desu" doesn't really operate this way too much, 
because it’s an exception. It’s set up like so:

	desu / da = affirmative present / future
	dewa arimasen / ja arimasen / dewa nai / ja nai = negative present / future tenses

	deshita / datta = affirmative past
	dewa arimasendeshita / ja arimasendeshita / dewa nakatta / ja nakatta = negative past

That's "desu." Welcome to the son of a bitch :P  We will go over all of these don't worry.
Don't get discouraged though, because you'll use it so much it will become second nature.

Okay, desu/da is the affirmative present/future.
I say present/future because japanese doesn't really distinguish between the two, not through verbs.
It's through context and other things in the sentence.  So... if you say

	sore desu
	it can mean  "it's that" or "it will be that"  depending on the context.

--------------------------------------------------  [ Affirmative / Negative ]  --------------------------------------------------

To explain Affirmative/negative a bit...  Just linguistic terms 
--- Asserting that something is true or correct, as with the answer "yes," an affirmative reply. ---
						    I'm just copying from dictionary.com haha.
Negative, well obviously, is the opposite :P

Past tense and Formality: (desu)

I'm ordering these in terms of politeness, or formalness actually.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|          Formal = Informal                             |         English translation                                       |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    |											    |
    |	deshita = datta                                         					    |
    |	sore deshita = sore datta		   : it was that				    |
    |	kore deshita ka? = kore datta?		   : was it this?				    |
    |	hai, sou deshita	= hai, sou datta		   : yes, it was				    |
    |											    |
    |	dore deshita ka? = dore datta?		   : which was it?			    |
    |	a, sore deshita = a, sore datta		   : oh, it was that			    |
    |											    |	
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|          				      The word Sou					         |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    |         										    |
    |	sou = so/right/yah/true								    |
    |	sou deshita = sou datta			   : it was so/it was right			    |
    |	sou deshita ka? = sou datta?		   : was it so?/was it right?		    |
    |	a, so so so so so			   : oh, ya ya ya ya thats right!		    |
    |	hai, sou desu = hai, sou da		   : yah, it's true				    |
    |	sou desu ka? = sou da? = sou?	               : really? Is it so?			    |  
    |											    |	                     							
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The last sou is an example of even further informality. Its just a casual way of asking the question.
The teal colored so so so so so, is a fast spoken phrase kind of giving the impression that you 
either really agree with the previous statement or that you were reminded of something and agree.
Its enthusiasticly spoken and generally creates a laugh : )
We will talk more about sou next week.

In Japanese you don't really need to give "deshita" or "desu" in your answer also because it’s
assumed from context.  So... 

	dore deshita ka?    -------->     "sore"
	which was it?         -------->      that

You can easily just point and say "sore," as we do in English when we are lazy.
We don't always say "it was that," neither do the Japanese.

-----------------------------------------------  [ Negative  Present / Future ]  -----------------------------------------------

Let's talk about the "negative present/future" now. dewa arimasen / ja arimasen / dewa nai / ja nai
Why so many? I don't know. It sucks, but there is a pattern.

First:
	"dewa" and "ja" are the same thing essentially.
	"dewa" is more formal then "ja."

People typically say "ja," when they speak. Sometimes you'll hear "dewa." which is softer.

	student1: kore desu ka?
		   is it this?

	student2: iie, kore ja arimasen
		  no, its not this

The "dewa nai / ja nai" are the less formal spoken versions of the previous.
"iie, kore ja nai" is the same thing, just less formal.

----------------------------------------------  [ More Concerning Context ]  ----------------------------------------------

	student1: dare no biiru desu ka?
		   who's beer is it?
		   biiru = beer              (note: biru = building)

	student2: kowai`-san no biiru desu
		   it's kowai's beer

	student1: sou desu ka?
		   really?

	student2: hai, sou desu
		   yes, it is so

	student1: are wa?
		   what about that beer way over there?

STOP !   THINK !    What did I just do?

I used context based on the conversation previously, in Japanese, you can just cut things out of the 
upcoming sentences, and the subjects are retained, the topic is understood. Let's try this again.

	kore wa nan desu ka?
	what is this?

	kore wa?
	what is this? how about this?

You can cut off "nan desu ka," because in Japanese, most people instinctively know what you're 
going to ask by situation. If you just hold something in your hand and say "kore wa?" with rising 
intonation, you're asking a question like a normal Japanese would in informal spoken speech and
it's assumed that the question your asking is similar to the previous in intention.

Now, depending on the context (situation) "kore wa?" could mean a lot.
It could mean "what's this?" "who is this?" and "what about this?" etc.
It all depends on situation.

Another example:

	student1: are wa nani?
		   what's that?
		   	nani = what

	student2: saaaa, are wa.. ettto... Att-san no wainu desu
		   well......, that is ummmmm... Att's wine.
		   	saa = well 
		   	saaaaa = well.....
		   	ettto = ummmmm
		   	wainu = wine
	
	student1: hontou desu ka?
		   really?

	student2: ettto, tabun
		   ummm, maybe
			tabun = maybe

	student2: tabun, are wa kekekekeke-san no wainu desu
		   maybe, that's kekekekeke's wine

	student1: souka souka
		   i see, I see

Then a third person enters the room!!!  It's Takeya-san!  ( the student3 )

	student3: iie, are wa watashi no desu!
		   no, thats mine!
			watashi = I
			watashi no = my

	student3: kekekekeke no wainu ja arimasen
		   It's not kekekekeke's wine

Takeya could also say,

	kekekekeke no ja nai
	It's not kekekekeke's

You don't need to repeat the subject "wine" again.
It's understood from context, and Takeya doesn't need to be polite with kekekekeke if he doesn't 
want to. After all, I almost got his wine. :)  

Okay.  So far we have learned about "desu/da," "wa," "no," "ka" "ko-so-a-do."

Let's introduce another concept. We said:

	"   X   wa   Y   desu " is a form of identification.

So 
	kazekage wa baka desu
	kazekage is silly

Baka also means other things, as I'm sure you know. :P
Baka is an adjective. We'll talk about it more soon
.
Here is another pattern used for asking questions:

	  X   wa nan desu ka?
	what is   X   ?

we saw that before,

	kore wa nan desu ka?
	what is this?

	kore wa?
	what is this?

Politeness of "baka"

I just got a question about the use of "baka" and "desu" in the same sentence.
Is there a need to be polite?
Well, what I did here and failed to mention was that I used desu to "soften" it.   "baka desu"

Depending on how you say, "baka desu" can means a lot of different things, for example:

	it's stupid
	he's stupid
	she sucks

Whatever, but if you say if softly and teasingly, it can mean:

	you're silly
	you're a dork
	     
	      or

	baka da!        
	you idiot!!!!

A lot of things depend on the emotion you put behind it, and the context.
Japanese is subtle, non-direct, non-confronting in general. It's this way for a reason. The people 
of a country define the language. Their values are carried in the way the language is created. 
You can be direct in Japanese, if you want, but it’s rude. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically half of the stuff you hear in anime you'll probably not hear in real life.
So don't go to Japan on vacation and start saying anime crap.  haha
I think that’s a good place to end here today  :)

 ______________
 ||  Homework  ||
--------------------------

1. Watch part 2 of the learn Japanese video ( Japanese Basic 1 - 02 - What's That )

2. Do lesson 2 in the workbook and go here and learn to read and write the first 15 hiragana
    http://www.japanese-name-translation.com/site/hiragana_symbols.html
	a, i, u, e, o ka, ki, ku, ke, ko sa, shi, su, se, so

	( if you don't plan on learning to read japanese, you need to at least be able to read 
	  hiragana and katakana. But reallly though, if you don't plan on learning kanji, you are 
	  missing out kanji is fun, meaningful, and represents japanese culture and thinking      )

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Student list :
~~~~~~~~~~

AHM-Otaku- 	fristian 			MD 			Swistak
Alfarin 		Grangee		MewIchigo 		Takeya 
att 		Grosse_Bertha 		Naga_			terry_b 
Backalley	Hectic3 		Natsuke 		Tetsu 
Bakura 		Inanececidi 		Neko-Musume		TuncaCeleste
bewarE 		inuyasharenegade	Nem-siS		Vanilla_icemarle 
BraiN 		Kazekage 		Omitshu|JARP		Vincent-MX 
candrodor	Kieron 			O_Chronos		Willy 
Conspera 	Konowal 		Progeny		Xistance
Corncobb 	Kowai`			prosthetic		x_Ryo-ohki_x
divStar 		Kuzu 			Renato_kun		yidaki 
dude^2		Liminosse 		sakurakessho		z81 
emuonyurshoe 	L_FRoST		ShadowofShinobi 	ZoE
eu_kun_ela 	ManofWar 		swingswing 		[ale^]

Okay, good luck everyone! Do your homework!! See you next weeeeek!!    ~~kekekekeke

Editors – Candrodor, Vincent-MX, kekekekeke
This is Version 3.0

Vincent-MX Bonus: Behind the scene:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kekekekeke	: wow, that was a long lesson. I'm open to question....
		  if you have any questions when I'm not here, you can Post on forum. 
                          http://invision.nihongosensei.org/index.php?act=idx

konowal		: could you answer what about language in tv shows, not anime? are they worth 
              	  watching to learn speaking of words?
kekekekeke	: tv should be how people should talk. haha
		  I just watched general tv in tokyo, anything on tv, like game shows, news, sports.

Natsuke	: my teacher usually spaced out the words, so arimasendeshita 
		  was arimasen deshita.. I wonder if it makes any difference romanji-wise.
TuncaCeleste	: remember that in japanese, there are no spaces :D
kekekekeke	: yah it almost never does
		  I use spacing to make it clear and to show how words are broken up
		  but written japanese has no spacing. however, romaji uses spacing of course.

AHM-Otaku	: so Japanese writing has lil to no punctuation? when written in kanji.
kekekekeke	: they use question marks and exclamation points
		  and periods but they look different.

AHM-Otaku	: did you learn japanese just from living in japan kekekekeke?
kekekekeke	: I studied in america for a year, went to tokyo for 10 weeks, studied a year, 
		  went to tokyo for 12 weeks :)

cryptic		: http://www.dragonmedia.us/programs/kana.swf
		  you guys should use that for your kana trainer. I learned kana in 2 hour.
Neko-Musume	: http://kanasensei.sourceforge.net/ <-- I used that (it's in java)

=======================================================================
This 2nd lesson by kekekekeke was re-edited by      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    Vincent-MX  V3.0  
=======================================================================
Thanks to " Candrodor " for a nice clean log.

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